The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling topics such as newly crowned IBF champion Subriel Matias, Floyd Mayweather, Canelo vs. cruiserweight champ Badou Jack, the ending to Lara vs. Wood, Crawford vs. Spence, Conor Benn and more.
God bless Bread.
Hope all is well with you and your beautiful family. The best of luck in your upcoming fight with Caleb. I’m confident you guys can get it done with a great fight plan, just like the one you came up with Jrock vs Jarret Hurd. This fight reminds me a lot of that showdown. Hope you watched Matias Ponce? Great performance by Matias. How well you believe he will fair with the upper echelon fighters in the division ? For example Regis Prograis, Josh Taylor, and Teo ?
Bread’s Response: Matias is no joke. He reminds me a lot of Antonio Magarito. Big and tall but pressure, pressure, pressure. I think he holds his own with everyone in the division. But I don’t know if he beats everyone. That’s different. The guys you named are elite and they have the ability to offset Matias’s pressure. At this point I believe 140lbs is the most stacked division in boxing. Josh Taylor is the #1 guy but I feel like he’s a in a little bit of a rut. I thought Catterrall beat him and Taylor has been inactive. We still don’t know if that was a bad night, Catterrall or slippage. The rest of the field including Matias, is chomping at the bit. I just want to see more of these guys fight top guys so we can know exactly who and what they are. I love Matias’s style and performances but before we go too crazy, I want to see how he performs vs the elite.
Simple question here…46 year old Floyd is weighing in at 155 vs Chalmers. I understand he’s on an exhibition/money grab run. But dude is still in shape. How would he fair against the field at 154? Including Spence/Bud right now? Is he more likely to get washed, or is it reasonable to believe he’d still be competitive? I think Spence/Bud pose the biggest risk but I truly believe that at 46 he can still make a fight of it and possibly win a decision. Interested in your take…Also, if Spence/Bud were to retire today, would they be considered ATG’s or HOF’ers?
Jason
Bread’s Response: Floyd’s mind is still sharp and his body is conditioned. Often times fighters let themselves go physically, then they get the urge to fight and start training from scratch and it doesn’t work out. Because of how active Floyd is in his retirement, I don’t think anyone in the world can WASH him. But beating Spence or Crawford right now, is a stretch. However, I do think there are fighters Floyd could still beat in the top 10. He just knows too much for most of these guys. Floyd is a boxing genius and the mind last longer than the body. Spence and Crawford are both HOF. I don’t think they’re ATG but if they fight, the winner will be.
Is Badou Jack now one of the top contenders for a Saul Alvarez super fight? I think he is for three reasons. The first reason has to do with legacy. Alvarez-Jack would be for a cruiserweight championship and therefore has the potential to give Alvarez’s legacy a boost. That’s something few other opponents can offer Alvarez. The second reason is name recognition. Jack has fought on big cards and has been a part of big main events for many years. He has to be one of the most recognizable boxers between super middleweight and cruiserweight. Thanks to the WBA “regular” title, he’s technically won championships in all three of those divisions as well. The third reason is the lack of risk with a high potential for reward. While Jack offers Alvarez the potential to claim a belt in a fifth weight class, he is also one of the least dangerous potential opponents out there for Alvarez.
He’s 39 years old and not in his prime. He seems close to Alvarez’s size and is not a huge puncher. Alvarez probably hits harder than Jack. Jack also isn’t a slick tactician, the style that probably troubles Alavarez most. Plus, if Jack does somehow beat Alvarez, everyone will chalk it up to Alvarez’s jump to cruiserweight. Am I crazy? Have I talked myself into a fight that will never happen? I feel like this is a new potential super fight that everyone would have laughed at just hours before Jack’s win. I need your take on if this fight is actually possible… and how you see it playing out if it does happen. For what it’s worth, I think it’s a mismatch and Alvarez destroys Jack.
Thank you so much!
Bread’s Response: I didn’t think about Canelo vs Jack but now that you have pitched it to me, I can see it happening. Jack just won a legit title at Cruiserweight. I think it’s enticing for Canelo. Canelo would be the favorite but Jack is one of the guys who is better than he looks. Great matchmaking.
Dear Mr Edwards,
I just wanted to mention a rather common topic – “weight bullies” – in your weekly emails. It is an observation rather than a question but feel free to give your take on it. My personal preference would be weighing just before fight so boxers fight while weighing in real time at given division. Your approach is different: a fighter either needs to get stronger/heavier to compete with bigger foes or (inferred) needs to move back to lower class (or stay there). Also the bigger fighters have to make sure that they make weight without much negative impact on their abilities in the ring.
Regardless of my preference I feel your point is valid – you have repeated at least a few times that fighters evolve in each particular era, which means that they have to adjust to existing not theoretically ideal or subjectively preferable conditions. My main point here is that we all have our preferences but if we take step back and unwind a bit we can see the reality clearer. I realise (to some extent) that the boxing business is tough with lots of strong emotions and hard decisions are to be taken. What I really feel would help is when we all communicate about the sports we love we ought to strive to clear our minds before we make comments. Waiting a bit to think things over makes no harm – quite contrary. Whether it is possible in current landscape is another matter, but I would like to think it is possible to some extent.
Have a great week, Marek
Bread’s Response: It’s not so much that I love the current Status Quo of making weight. But this is the era I’m in. I believe you have to conform to your era, without complaining. Great athletes and teams figure it out and adapt. The communication is in the actions of the fighters. Because the promoters are doing weigh ins at say 1pm the day before and the fight is not until 9pm the day after. Fighters have over 30 hours to rehydrate. Sometimes 36 hours. Because there have been so many head injuries relative to cutting weight, the medical people in boxing feel that the fighters need more time to rehydrate. Hence the Weight Bully was spawned.
But as you said, sometimes being a weight bully backfires. I don’t care to think about the negative aspects of it because I’m IN IT, and I just have to figure out what’s best for the fighter I’m training. I feel like you make yourself weaker by complaining and thinking about things like that. I feel it’s better in my position to just overcome, get better and perform. Sometimes you will have the bigger fighter in the fight, others the smaller fighter. It’s all a part of the game. If the rules changed and went back to same day weigh ins, I would conform to that. It’s just how my mind works.
Hi Mr. Edwards. Thank you for your weekly hard work.
I was reading the opinions on the Wood-Lara stoppage. I would definitely rather stopping a bout before my fighter gets one punch too many. But the point I want to touch here is that when a fighter is out, he is out. Doesn’t matter to me whether there’s a round, a minute, or a second left in the fight. From a policy perspective, it’s a lot safer for everyone involved to get used to stop a fight when the fighter is out. If we force the referees or trainers to factor the time left, I think it’s both unsafe and hard to accurately assess the moment when a fight needs to be finished. Back to Chavez-Taylor. It was NOT the referee’s job to score the fight. NOT his job to let one fighter or another hear the final bell to secure a victory. His job was to assess if a fighter was knocked out. Taylor was definitely out, and no one on earth disputes that. People dispute that he deserved to hear the final bell, for there were just two seconds left and he was winning.
Every time I hear that argument I think: really? If a fighter is knocked out within 12 rounds, he is knocked out. Period. That’s easy policing. But, if you try to force things, what if a fighter -just because he deserves to “finish” receives one more free punch? Are we forcing te referees to take that risk? Are we forcing them to mentally score the fights? Safety should be everyone’s main concern. And safety was -I think- the governing reason in Wood’s corner to stop the fight. So I’m good with his trainer’s choice.
Thanks again, you make my Saturdays a bit more entertaining.
Carlos Navarro Sugich, from Hermosillo, Mexico
Bread’s Response: I DISAGREE with you strongly. Everything needs to be considered when stopping a fight. It’s called CONTEXT. You’re basically suggesting to throw out the circumstances of the fight. Disregard what happened to leading up to the fighter getting stopped. That’s ridiculous!
I don’t like talking about the Chavez vs Taylor fight because everyone forgets the climate on the night of the fight. Most of the people who agree that the referee was correct, are revisionist. Supposedly it was a safety precaution for Taylor and not Chavez’s A side status and preserving his undefeated record. THAT night everyone was outraged. Just listen to the commentary.
I don’t believe that it was a safety thing. I believe that Chavez had the best record in boxing. Prolonging that record was a big deal. Chavez was the A side. Chavez being a great fighter gave himself an opportunity with a furious late rally that he EARNED by the way. And when that opportunity came, an opportunist ruled in his favor.
My belief is reinforced because the following year, Mike Tyson another A side Don King fighter, gets Razor Ruddock hurt and BOOM another quick stoppage of a competitive fight by the same referee. To add to that…. Watch the Tommy Hearns vs Iran Barkley first fight 2 years prior. Hearns went down hard from a big shot. He got up wobbly with his mouthpiece hanging out. He was also looking at his corner when asked was he ok, just like Taylor did. Yet the same referee let Hearns continue in the 3rd round, but somehow claims he was concerned about Taylor’s safety in a fight that was almost over, when Taylor got up in better shape than Hearns did.
If there was concern for Taylor and Ruddock’s safety why none for Hearns who went down harder, hit his head, and was more hurt than both when he rose from the knockdown? Each time the A side fighter got the better outcome and opportunity.
To say that how much time is left in a fight doesn’t matter, is just absurd. Because SAFETY lies in time. The more time, the more chance of punishment. The less amount of time, the less chance of punishment. Maybe Taylor runs and holds for 2 seconds. Maybe he takes more punches, maybe he doesn’t get hit again. But he beat the count and was on his feet. Do you really think if Chavez had won 10 out of 11 rounds, and got dropped in the last winding moments of the last round and rose to his feet that, that fight gets called? If you believe that, I want to sell you some sand at the beach.
Every fighter who is hurt, doesn’t deserved to be stopped. You know this is boxing and a fighter has a right to fight out of trouble. My goodness! Fighter’s reputations are built on fighting out of trouble.
You said there is no dispute that Taylor was definitely OUT. No one disputes that he was hurt and had just been knocked DOWN. You’re the first person I have ever heard say he was definitely OUT. If that’s your definition of definitely out, you need to look up a new definition. He was not OUT. He was hurt and he rose to his feet to continue fighting. What happened next is up for debate. But him being out, is actually something you came up with to justify an argument.
As for Wood’s corner, again I don’t have an issue with it. A corner stoppage is different than a referee’s stoppage. The referee was NOT going to stop that fight because Wood was winning. It was the first time he was hurt. And he has shown the ability to overcome being hurt. So the referee was just going to count and allow him to continue as he beat the count. But his corner knows things about him that the referee may not know. And Ben Davidson saw something that he didn’t like. So he threw the towel in which I don’t have an issue with.
You’re conflating two different viewpoints. If a referee stops that Lara vs Wood fight under those same exact circumstances, he would most likely lose his job and there would be huge protest. A corner can do it, but not a referee under those specific conditions.
Hello Mr.Edwards,
I hope you and your family are well.
I can’t wait for Plant/Benavidez! I pray for the health of both fighters before and after the fight. When you were starting out, if you had the opportunity to apprentice under any trainer in history who would it be and why? Also, is there any one trainer that stands out in your mind as revolutionizing the sport of boxing whether it be through training methods or coached techniques?
Thank you for your wisdom as always. God bless you and yours.
Sincerely, Pat from NJ
Bread’s Response: While I’m thinking while I’m typing I always wanted to know who came up with Salvador Sanchez’s conditioning regimen. I know they didn’t call it Strength & Conditioning in the 1980s. But whoever did his conditioning was a marvel. He’s as conditioned a fighter as I have ever seen.
I can’t just pick one trainer. It’s too hard for me to say one person that I would want to apprentice under. But here are the trainers who I would want to learn from.
Emanuel Steward because of his realistic pad work. His intelligent but common assessment of fighters. His ability to build good amateurs and revitalize seasoned pros. His ability to not only strategize but also get his fighters in shape.
Virgil Hunter because he had to break through with his one kid without the powerful resume or reputation as a KNOWN trainer. Hunter was doubted because Ward was his first famous charge and to see how he dealt with that in real time would’ve been amazing.
Nacho Beristain because of all his fighters have perfect balance and they keep their hands up the entire fight. They get off rapid combinations but they don’t compromise defense. When I see a certain stance and line up, I know it’s a Beristain trained fighter.
Eddie Futch because of his calm approach in getting through to fighters. He seemed knowledgeable but he also seemed conscious of his delivery. Futch was the head man in the corner for Ali’s first loss, Roy Jones’s first loss and Evander Holyfield’s first loss. Because of the DQ, Montel Griffin’s performance vs Jones in the 1st fight, gets discredited. But Griffin was right with Superman 50/50 up until the DQ. When I watch a fight, I can tell if the fighter executed the game plan or if he freestyled. Futch had Griffin right in that 1st fight and if you look close, Futch was NOT in the corner for the rematch.
I noticed several times that you referred to a Crawford-Spence fight as a 50/50 deal. I don’t really see it that way. For one, Crawford hits harder than Errol, has a higher ring IQ, makes in-flight adjustments more seamlessly and holds a clear mental edge over Spence. Furthermore, Errol’s strength is boring in, head down and working the body while mixing in well-placed head shots. This plays right into Bud’s hands because it gives him more counterpunching opportunities. You don’t want to give a sniper like Bud even more opportunities to pick you off than normal. He’s one of the three best finishers in boxing, along with Monster Inoue and Artur Beterbiev. I’d call Crawford-Spence more like a 70/30 fight in Bud’s favor. If this was indeed anywhere close to a 50/50 affair, Al Haymon and Errol wouldn’t have so many reservations about making it.
I know it’s a moot point because this fight is never happening. One other thing…I’ll take you way back in time. I don’t know if you clearly remember the Gomez-Zarate fight from 1978. I was in high school at the time and was an avid boxing fan. Gomez went on to become a Top 5 P4P fighter in the world and had a very high KO percentage. Zarate was moving up from 118 to challenge him for the WBC 122 lb. belt. The fight was in Puerto Rico and was untelevised for some reason. Gomez destroyed Carlos in four or five rounds that night. In your opinion, why was Zarate a 3:1 favorite in this fight? I know oddsmakers heavily way his fifty-something KOs at the time and his win at the Forum over Alfonso Zamora, but making him a 3:1 favorite moving up in weight on the road against a KO machine like Bazooka Gomez was puzzling.
Peace, Carl from Queens, NY
Bread’s Response: I think Zarate was the big favorite because he had almost triple the fights. If I’m not mistaken Gomez was 21-0 and Zarate was 52-0. They both a had a similar number of championship fights but it seemed that Zarate was further along. Also as you mentioned his destruction of Zamora. So the betting public was much more familiar with Zarate in big fights. Everyone once in a while the oddsmakers get it wrong. And it’s usually because they aren’t familiar with the charge at the top level.
It’s why fighters like James Toney were underdogs vs Michael Nunn. And George Foreman was the underdog vs Joe Frazier. And Ali was the underdog vs Sonny Liston. And it’s why Jaron Ennis will be the underdog if fights and established champion next.
I don’t think Crawford is so much the harder puncher vs Spence, but he hits you with the better shot. Crawford has proven that he has the ability to score 1 punch kos more than Spence. But their ko % are similar. Errol just beats you down and sort of overwhelms you to a stoppage. Where as Bud breaks you down systematically and then hits you clean with a shot you don’t see and scores a ko. Bud’s knockouts seem to be more aesthetically pleasing to the majority but they both score kos at the same rate. So let’s keep that in mind.
I do believe Crawford will be the puncher in the fight. But not so much because he hits harder. But because of how often Errol scores points with his great jab and high volume. I think Crawford’s temperament and slow start will make him take more of a puncher’s role.
I also don’t know who has the mental edge. Who knows who has the mental edge? From my estimation Errol keeps it more simple in his approach. He walks behind a hard jab, he imposes his will. He goes to the body with both hands and he’s always the more physical guy. So he wins his fights in a more simple form. Volume, strength and determination.
Where as Crawford seems to do more improvised stuff. That’s just his game. I think Crawford shows MORE stuff when he wins. But that doesn’t mean he’s better. Tim Duncan and Kawhi Leonard are two of the best basketball players I have ever seen. Both keep it super simple. I’ve seen players who do more but aren’t more. I love Terence Crawford. I think he’s special. But I’m not going to say who’s better until they fight. Lot’s of fighters looked to be better than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon until they fought them and we saw something different.
As far as confidence they both seem confident they will win the fight.
Greetings Breadman, So, the WBC after investigating the Connor Benn matter for the last few months, has found “no conclusive evidence” that Benn knowingly ingested the banned substance in question.
Where do we go from here? Is boxing headed the baseball way where everyone juices and/or any kind of suspension/fine will be minimal? They just buried the sport with this asinine ruling. Mythical matchups – Which great boxer do you think loses or beats his younger version if we kept the young version at 26 and the old version at 36. Let’s use PAC, Floyd, Ali, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard and Hopkins. If you have others that had better careers as they got older. I’d love to hear your take on which fighters you think would change (or not) the outcome of the fights vs their younger versions.
Khalid Low
Bread’s Response: Whoever makes these decisions to pretty much believe a boxer who has tested positive or take their word has to realize something. Cheaters cheat to get away with what they did. It’s intoxicating to them, to GET AWAY with it. You can’t be a cheater and not have some narcissism in you. No one cheats to get caught. So if you understand that, understand this.
No one cheats, gets caught then without an argument, just waves the white flag. They lie until they can’t anymore. They have the PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY excuse waiting. They lie until you present undeniable proof which is pretty much impossible because most of the evidence is circumstantial except the results of the test which are either positive or negative. But their culpability is always subjective. Look at Roger Clemens and Pete Rose…..Therefore a clever cheater will have his built in lie, ready in the chamber in case he gets caught. Why wouldn’t he? He’s not trying to get caught. So the EGGS, the MEAT, the WILD BOAR. It’s always going to be something waiting that appears innocent.
I don’t want to play mind reader. I don’t want to play GOD. But it shouldn’t matter what the excuse is. What matters is we are responsible for what we put in our body in sports. And if you eat something that causes you to test positive then you still cheated. Many don’t know this but in the real law, IGNORANCE is not an excuse. So for example if you say, I didn’t know going into that house and taking out the tv is a burglary. It doesn’t mean you’re innocent because you claim you didn’t know what you did was a crime.
Trying to prove intent or culpability is too hard. But reading a positive or negative result on a test is EASY. It think as a sport we need to keep this simple. The Why and if you knew you were cheating makes this too complicated. And there is something else I observed….. None of these fighters are giving excuses where they would have to implicate who gave them the PEDS. Most of the current excuses conveniently are blamed on food. Again, I don’t know if these excuses are true or not. But I find it interesting because if you blame it on simple food, then you don’t have to OUT your supplier.
If boxing doesn’t stop this and starts to show some integrity where we value safety over money, someone is going to get hurt and hurt bad. I saw a transformation in Conor Benn’s physique, punching power and level of viciousness over his last few fights. Especially with Chris Algieri performance. I saw a fighter that I once looked at as a C level fighter, turn into a real threat. Everyone has a right to improve and get better with training and maturity. But coincidentally during his most drastic improvement he test positive for PEDS as he’s about to move up in weight and fight Eubank. If you guys want to believe that’s really a coincidence that’s fine. We all are entitled to our opinions. I’m not going to argue with anyone….
As far as what direction boxing is going in. I have to be optimistic, as a clean trainer I want a level playing field. I have been hearing of an elite program with VADA where elite and well known fighters can sign up for VADA 24/7/365. It will be new and different than before and some big time P4P fighters are very interested. The details are getting worked out as we speak but if or when this comes about, I think things will turn for the better. Boxing needs this at this point.
If things don’t turn around, the day will come where a fighter will be on PEDS and he’s going to fatally or seriously hurt another fighter and the promoters/networks/commissions will be liable and the hurt fighter’s family will bankrupt them. No one wants that!
Just to start off I got to give you your flowers your insight not just into fighting but the mental aspect teaches alot of people including me. With black history commencing i always see questions about the fighters and the highly decorated trainers such as Butch lewis , Nazim Richardson , Emmanuel Steward. Can you name five unheralded black trainers of yesteryear?
Peace and may yall give the best yall got on fight night fam !!
Bread’s Response: Good question. Harry Wiley trained Sugar Ray Robinson. How does the trainer, who trained the greatest fighter of them all, not get more recognition?
Jimmy Aurthor is a Philadelphia trainer who is revered here but not too many other places. People lie about working with him as boxers and assistant trainers. I’ve never met him but I have seen his work. Great trainer. Tyrone Everett is probably his greatest creation and Everett is as good as a fighter that the city produced in the 70s. He had a HOF shot if not for his unfortunate murder.
Janks Morton, the man who ALSO trained Sugar Ray Leonard. Morton did the majority of the work in camp, until the more popular and charismatic Angelo Dundee came into camp.
Bill Miller was a great Detroit trainer who trained the great James Toney in his prime.
Adrian Davis out of the DC area can really train. He’s older now but he still knows what he’s doing. I love hearing him speak. I love his mitt work. He was the hottest trainer in their area during their best run when the DMV had William Joppy, Keith Holmes, Sharmba Mitchell, Mark Davis and Hasim Rahman all win titles in a small span. Davis worked with many of them.
Yo what up doe Bread, appreciate you as always!
One thing that sticks in my mind with Manny Pacquiao’s style is how often he’d split the jab of a orthodox fighter with his straight left slipping outside and I figured I’d be able to come up with a handful of current southpaws that lands this punch the same way because of the impact of manny but couldn’t really think of no one, you know any guys who’s pretty nice at this right now?Also I’ve recently been in the gym more trying to add some size and muscle I’m about 6’1 165 and Im up about 10lbs over the last few months any tips on building muscle, some of the most important muscles to train for boxers and some workouts you recommend for strength.Good luck on your up coming fight, peace god.
Bread’s Response: You must be from Detroit. What up doe!
Manny is the best southpaw I’ve ever seen at splitting the guard. He adapted to his height. And as he got older and moved up in weight he became better at it. I call that a master punch. A punch you can pretty much get off vs anyone. I don’t know why orthodox fighters don’t use this more against southpaws. Everything a southpaw does to an orthodox fighter, an orthodox fighter can do to a southpaw. I can’t believe more fighters don’t copy that move from Manny but they don’t.
Don’t try to build size so much, build strength. Too much size will slow you down and make you stiff in boxing. Without getting into your workouts, I can tell you what to do immediately after a workout in order to repair your muscles. Drink a good clean Whey Protein shake of your choice and try to get at least 8 hours sleep. It may sound corny but trust me it’s the best recovery. Protein for the small muscle tears and sleep for everything else. If you recover consistently your gains will become more noticeable.
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