The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling topics such as Mauricio Lara’s stoppage win over Leigh Wood, Miguel Cotto’s career, Chris Colbert vs. Jose Valenzuela, claims of Roy Jones’ involvement in Adrien Broner vs. Michael Williams fallout, Tony Harrison vs. Tim Tszyu, Jake Paul vs. Tommy Fury, and more.
I hated the stoppage in the Leigh Woods-Mauricio Lara fight. There’s no question Woods was out on his feet when he stood up. There was a risk that Lara would score a brutal knockout if the fight had continued. But Woods was only 14 seconds away from a minute long break. He was up huge on unofficial scorecards. He was also the defending champion. In my opinion, that means he “earned the benefit of the doubt” (to borrow a phrase from Larry Merchant after Chavez-Taylor 1) to continue with so little time left on the clock. It seems like the referee agreed with my take. It was a bit shocking to see that Ben Davidson felt differently. So I have to ask: if you were in Woods’ corner, would you have let the fight continue?
Bread’s Response: I would never say what I would do if I was in Wood’s corner. That’s an undermining a split second decision that was made by his coach who I happen to respect a great deal. I think Ben Davidson is the truth. I think he’s a very good trainer. There is really no right or wrong to this. Some coaches would have let it go on and they wouldn’t be wrong. Some coaches feel like it’s better to stop the fight a punch early, rather than a punch late.
Maybe Ben knows something about Wood that we don’t. He’s in camp with him every day. Maybe he was worried because of all the punishment he took in his last fight. I don’t know. The most important thing to me is, that Wood is publicly supporting his coaches’ decision. If Wood is good with it, I’m good with it.
The only intriguing thing to me in this, is what would the referee have done if the towel had not been thrown in. Lara tapped the ref on his back and left the neutral corner and just as he did it, the towel was thrown in. So if we go by the letter of the law, Lara should’ve been sent back to the corner and with the clock winding down, maybe Wood would have been saved by the bell. We will never know now…..
Breadman,
Read the post by someone seemingly implying Cotto was overrated. I feel like the Margarito 1 fight changed the trajectory of Cotto’s career. The damage he took in that fight was horrific – and may have been the result of foul play. Even William Joppy, Fernando Vargas, and David Reid. All were undefeated prior to Trinidad. What would their careers have been? Are these fighters being downgraded unfairly in your opinion?
Best, Chris
Bread’s Response: I don’t like to compare Margarito and Trinidad. I know Naazim Richardson personally. I asked him personally. He told me that Margarito had illegal knuckle pads that were wet in his wraps. He said that Trinidad simply used too much GAUZE. No objects. I just wanted to make that clear for the people who clump them two together, because they were caught by the same person.
I do think Margarito changed Cotto’s career, but Cotto still would have had to fight Pacquiao and Mayweather. So…..I think Cotto squeezed everything out of his career he was meant to squeeze. I don’t know what Vargas and Reid’s careers would have been. Joppy was a little older when he fought Tito…, I think Joppy was what he was. But losing is part of the game. Getting stopped is part of the game. Most fighters don’t come back the same after brutal losses. So it’s really hard to say. Most big punchers change career trajectories. It’s the game we are in. I think their careers ended up where they were supposed to be. Vargas, Reid and Joppy were all champions when they fought Tito. Attrition is part of all sports. A great fighter beat very good fighters to elevate himself. So therefore I think it’s just the nature of sports. On top of that, I think Tito was a clean fighter. Tito could punch. You could see the leverage in his shots.
Breadman,
Much congratulations for all of your well-deserved success. There was an earlier question regarding overlooked great performances. I noticed Terry Norris- Simon Brown 2 was left off the list. Does this performance not fit the criteria? Norris was Charlo (Jermell) before Charlo was Charlo.Also, what about Calzaghe-Lacy, Ward-Kessler and Rigondeaux-Donaire? Do you think these bouts qualify as overlooked boxing masterclasses as well?
All the best, Chris
Bread’s Response: I named my perfect fights off the top of my head. Norris vs Brown 2 was excellent but Brown vs Norris 1 was even better. Brown fought a perfect fight, violent but counterpunching the hard charging Norris.
Calzaghe was perfect for how he fights. I liked that performance.
Ward vs Kessler was awesome, I forgot that one. i think it was Ward’s finest performance.
Rigo vs Donaire how did I forget it. Maybe the best performance of the decade.
Hi Bread,
Hope you all keeping well I guess you will have seen the result of Leigh Woods v Mauricio Lara. I’m obviously disappointed but wanted your thoughts on Ben Davison’s actions. To me, he was completely right. There are a lot of people criticizing him, saying there were only 10 seconds remaining in the round & that Woods was miles ahead (somehow reminiscent of Chavez v Taylor).To me, that is irrelevant. Normally, when a boxer is hurt & his opponent closes in the hurt boxer will try to minimize the punishment he is taking by putting gloves up, or trying to move his head. At absolute worst he can just sink his head into his shoulders & brace for the punishment. If a guy is out on his feet he can’t do anything to defend himself & he just takes the shot square on. That is the kind of thing that results in catastrophic brain damage. So, I thought Ben was totally right to stop it. Do you agree Bread?
Bread’s Response: The amount of time left in a round definitely matters. There is a clock for a reason. But Ben did what he did and that’s that. I don’t have an issue with it because Wood doesn’t seem to have an issue with it. Ben made his call and you can’t go back. I honestly believe it’s subjective. I stopped one fight and it was a hard decision but I stand on it. Some agreed and some didn’t. But that’s how all subjective things are. That’s why they are subjective.
You really know your stuff my man ! Much Respect. Love love love your answer regarding Leonard- Duran 2 . Ray was brilliant. He won almost every round & in round 8 he was punching the shit out of Duran . And hurting him . Sugar never got any credit for one of the great performances in boxing history . They talked about Duran quitting and Ray showboating, but he was perfect !!!Ray also never got credit for his win against Marvin . He had 1 fight in 4 1/2 years moved up 2 divisions and beat an elite dominant champion . RIP to Hagler but he b.s. everyone into thinking he was robbed when he know he lost . I was at the fight live , everyone knew Ray won . It was his night . And FYI he would’ve beat him worse in a rematch .Question. Who do you like Chris “ Primetime “ Colbert vs Rayo ? I know Colbert well . He had a bad night vs Garcia . Mentally he didn’t think he was in a fight . He’s legit . He will dominate Rayo.
Great job again
Howie
Bread’s Response: Yeah man it’s so bizarre. Just think about this. Leonard loses to Duran in June of 1980. He does an immediate rematch at 24. If he loses history is different. Duran claims he wasn’t in shape. Somehow no one researches that Duran had a 9 week camp. He got paid a boat load of money. And most importantly he was the smaller man, so when he beat Leonard. He got credit for being a great lightweight and beating a great welterweight. Then he loses, and people take credit away from Leonard because supposedly the smaller man struggled to make weight. Like somehow Leonard made Duran party and drink. All Duran did, was be Duran. He hadn’t lost in 8 years. I doubt seriously if he had his first drink in 1980. That’s BS. I still say Duran just couldn’t match his performance level of 5 months earlier. He couldn’t get in the ZONE again. He couldn’t be perfect again and anything less than perfect, he couldn’t beat Leonard.
Man I just watched Hagler vs Tony Sibson. Hagler was some fighter. His style get misappropriated. He’s often thought of as a slugger. But Hagler was athletic, he was light on his feet, he was fundamentally sound, he had an ATG jab. He had a great punch selection. But because of all of the kos, muscles and menacing bald head. He’s viewed as a slugger. Leonard gets criticized for waiting Hagler out. But Leonard was much smaller. He had to grow into his body.
Yes Hagler slipped but so did Leonard. How could he be the same fighter that beat Hearns and Duran? It’s absurd. Leonard is appreciated but too many try to discredit his career. His top 4 scalps are Benitez 38-0, Duran 71-1, Hearns 32-0 and Hagler 62-2. I’m not sure if we have ever seen anyone in history win 4 fights of that level vs that level of opponent. It’s sickening to hear the criticism of Leonard. He asked Hagler for a 12 round fight. Well Hagler fought a 12 rounder vs Hearns and Mugabi. He asked Hagler for 10 oz gloves. Ridiculous. He asked Hagler for gloves with the thumb attached. So he didn’t want to get his eye put out again. He asked Hagler for a big ring. Yeah he did. And Hagler got paid a lot more. So that was the compromise. Hagler got more money and Leonard got more ring. That was an even trade off in Hagler’s eyes then after the fight didn’t go his way, these things became an issue. I call BS again.
You know I can’t call Colbert vs Rayo. I haven’t seen enough of Rayo. I’ve only seen him fight twice. It’s an interesting fight that I’m surprised either took. The loser’s career is in serious jeopardy. Because fighters are so inactive in this era, the loser will be 0-2 for a 2 plus year span and that’s hard to overcome when you have less than 30 fights. Let me think on this match up because there are so many variables. We have to see if Colbert is a force at 135lbs. We have to see what really went wrong vs Garcia? You say an off night but what if it was just Garcia? We have to see if Rayo will have a residual effect of his last fight. That was a tough ko for a young fighter. He was really hurt multiple times. Props to both for taking this fight. Most would’ve asked for a few comeback confidence building fights. Let me watch a little more of both before I pick a winner.
What do you think of the Roy Jones accusations? Is it possible for a trainer to sabotage a fight. Have you ever seen Michael Williams fight, do you think he had a chance vs Broner. This whole thing seems shady and weird. How common is it to spar a week before the fight. Have you ever told a fighter to pull out of a fight because he wasn’t looking good? I heard Williams’s father make some serious accusations but something is not adding up. They claim Roy got Williams’s jaw broken.
Bread’s Response: I did hear a little of what was said but as you know anyone can say anything these days. I don’t want to get into the sabotaging of the fight. That’s serious and without proof I won’t even get into that. I have too much respect for Roy Jones to publicly speculate if Roy sabotaged his own fighter’s fight without tangible proof. This situation is weird to me also but it’s understandable.
From the outside looking in, it seemed as though Roy Jones is getting a lot of criticism as a trainer lately and he didn’t want to get dominated in a big fight. That may seem selfish but he has a right to feel that way. Trainers take a lot heat for losses and when your fighters doesn’t perform it hurts your brand. Trainers are the 2nd most important people on the team, after the fighter.
Now you ask me if I ever pulled a fighter out of a fight. No I haven’t. I’ve told fighters to not take certain fights beforehand. But I’ve never had a fighter sign to take a career high payday. Then tell him no he shouldn’t fight. Roy has a right to not want to be attached to a kid, that he thinks is going to get dominated. But if he feels like that, he can remove himself and let Williams go make his money. That’s how I feel about that specifically.
As for the sparring…the news came out last Wednesday or Thursday that Williams was sparring and broke his jaw. The fight was scheduled for Saturday February 25th. Most sparring gets cut off the Friday or Saturday before the fight. Which is a week out. Some fighters even spar Monday or Tuesday because they want to stay sharp. I see nothing wrong with sparring the week before the fight. Rarely does a fighter stop 2 weeks before because he may get a little rusty. As far as who he sparred. I don’t know who Williams sparred, so I can’t say if he sparred over his head or not. But I can say Roy Jones can NOT get Michael Williams’s jaw broken. The sparring partner threw the punch not Roy Jones. There is no such thing as Roy Jones got his jaw broken if he wasn’t the one sparring. Roy didn’t take the punch or throw the punch. If Williams had head gear on and he wasn’t sparring the Terminator, then his jaw just got broken but Roy Jones didn’t get his jaw broken. There is a difference.
I don’t know what the weight or status of the sparring partners were so I can’t speak on that aspect. Typically if it’s that close to a fight, you want the sparring partner a similar size. Sometimes we can all become emotional under disappointment and stress. I feel like this was a big opportunity for a young fighter who wasn’t supposed to win and him and his team are upset. They have a right to be upset. But I don’t know who’s responsible for this. It’s unfortunate but it’s boxing. It would probably be best for all parties to calm down a little and not speak to the media while upset. Because Williams and his team are upset and they feel how they feel, and Roy will try to defend himself it will cause back and forth through the media. Michael Williams went to Roy Jones for a reason. He was 20-1 for a reason. So it couldn’t have been all bad. Unfortunately this is boxing. It’s how this game goes. It’s the ugly side of the sport we love.
As I type I and think I want to say two more things. One is I understand Michael Williams Sr. protecting his son. Our love for our kids will make us run in front of a bus for them. I’m assuming he has invested thousands in his son’s career and to finally get the big break and not make it to the table to eat, is heart breaking. So if he says a few things out of emotions, give the guy a break. I saw my son get slighted out of an MVP trophy in pee wee football and it made me go there with the coach. So I definitely won’t judge Michael Williams Sr. if he’s upset.
I may be in the minority. But I think Roy Jones is a good trainer. I just think Roy needs to be more selective on WHO he trains. He seems to love boxing and love being in the gym. So he trains some guys who come in on the B side. It’s nothing wrong with that but Roy Jones is the greatest fighter some of us have seen. In my opinion he’s arguably the best since 1990. That’s over 30 years. So people expect him to work miracles as a trainer because of what he was as a fighter and it doesn’t work like that. But look at his work with Jean Pascal. Isaac Chilemba vs Kovalev. And recently Bryant Perella vs Toney Harrison. Roy can train, he just needs a certain level and type of fighter. If he cuts his stable down and becomes more exclusive to just 3 or 4 fighters. It will allow him to give them ALL of his time and trust me, he’s going to be successful. The guy knows what he’s doing. He’s just in a little slump after Eubank lost and Perella got 2 draws in a row.
Hi Bread,
Didn’t make the cut last week. Sent too late. I added a few: 1 – Can you explain the differences in style between the major boxing American cities? What it entices as far as temperament, body type, guard, stance, etc… 2 – As you said, race is prevalent in boxing. Usually fighters seek a gym culture, style and trainer they can relate to. You have black, latino and white fighters; How does this work for you and has it always been a smooth process? 3 – Do you feel like J-Rock (and you) ruined Hurd? Do you think Hurd can make a decent run at 160 and have a few good fights left in him? His downfall is as much physical as psychological. He was less willing to take what he once absorbed, but he also focused on marrying, grieving his dad and setting up a few businesses. Could he be back in this weak 160 era?4 – Middleweight is rather empty compared to 154 or 168. Wouldn’t you advise any top 154 to make the jump?
Less competition, better access to titles, and some time before Ortiz, Ennis, Spence and Crawford come up to 154 to make it even more crowded and competitive? 5 – Why is Benavidez so emotional? What about his dad? Are you going to ruin the boogeyman as you did with Hurd? The narrative looks similar. Looking forward to seeing how you deal with the bullying. 6 – Garcia – Prograis: How much of a favorite should Regis be, if this was to happen?7 – Tszyu – Harrison: Unless Tony lost a clear step or can’t take a punch anymore, don’t you think he’s a very tough opponent for Tim? TH is a better and more aggressive boxer than Gausha, hits harder and moves better. Do you smell the upset?
Take care, Diego
Bread’s Response:
1. Body types are in every area. That depends more on the race than the cities. I feel like Ohio and DC are similar. A lot of their fighters are athletic high guard walk down fighters. Look the Adrien Broner, Tank Davis and the Peterson brothers. Philly has more of a slick but violent style. And Detroit has a long guard style with big right hands. I can look at a kid and tell where he learned to fight.
2. I have trained black, white and Puerto Rican fighters. They have different rhythms but I don’t care about that. I will conform to them if they conform to me. I loved training all races. I have more of an issue if a kid is disrespectful. I don’t care about race. It’s also different training a heavyweight. Most heavyweights simply lack the stamina and agility of smaller fighters so you have to train them differently and be more understanding because they don’t have the same conditioning as smaller guys.
3. I wish Jarrett Hurd the best. He’s a good kid. I don’t want to say anyone ruined his career but that was a tough fight vs Jrock. He took a lot of punishment. What happens when you’re big for the weight, is it takes your motivation to make the weight once you lose. What also happens is the opponents fight you harder because they saw you vulnerable. I don’t know if Hurd can comeback at 160lbs but I wouldn’t count him out just yet. Let’s see how he looks under Andrew Council who is an excellent trainer.
4. No I wouldn’t advise any top 154 to move to 160 if they can still make 154. If they all move to 160, then 160 won’t be dead anymore and all of the competition at 154 will be at 160, so it would be pointless. Fighters fight. I feel like 154 is wide open too. Jermell Charlo is doing great but he hasn’t fought since his win over Castano and after him the division is still open.
5. I expect a great fight.
6. Prograis 3 to 1 favorite.
7. I do smell the upset in Harrison vs Tszyu. But Tony has to do everything right. He’s fighting in Australia and traveling abroad is a real thing. Being on a plane is dehydrating. Getting acclimated to the food is another issue. We have to see what resources Tony has when he’s in Australia. Again, traveling is real and it’s not something to minimize. But if he does travel and doesn’t allow himself to be carried too fast, he can outbox Tszyu.
Hello Breadman,
I would like to have your opinion on a few items.
1. Concerning your fighter Plant and his knockout of Dirrell. In my opinion I kind of think it was a two punch knockout. When I see the knockout I feel not enough is said of the punch before the last punch. I feel that the body shot disabled and prevented Dirrell from functioning right before the left hook to the head. It was almost like he was frozen hurt. Look like a frazier one two. Do you think that he was really badly hurt by the body shot or do you think it was just a good shot that actually set up the last punch?? It reminded me of Sonny Liston getting knocked out by the devastating punch of Martin. The knockout punch was a left but the real knockout punch was the right hand which disabled liston before the left hook. What do you think about the body shot??2. Not going to talk about Duran Leonard
2 much but I agree with everything you said about how well Leonard fought except I don’t agree that it was so much of Duran getting frustrated instead I think Duran was getting out punched and feeling the affects of Leonards sharp punches hurting him and did not want to go through with the beatdown which I think would have continue to happen and I love Duran. He wanted a third fight and I think if he finished the second fight he would have got it. I am not talking about that 3rd fight much later which was not much of a fight. I think if people would just call the result of the fight the way it happened Leonard wins by tko in round 8 it would be nice. Leonard got my respect for knocking him out. Just my opinion. Maybe one day Duran will tell the truth and leonard will be satisfied just like one day maybe OJ might tell the truth. Between the two who is you favorite Duran or Leonard?
3. You have mentioned the ppv main event happening too late in the evening which is correct for eastern folks. Back in the day when there was the main event they would also have one or two fights after the main event. Johnny addie would say another bout to follow. Would it be feasible to have the featured bout to take place after the main event? That way the main event takes place earlier. It looks like a lot of people come late to fight card just in time for the main event. This way the featured attraction would be held in front of many fans. (if they stay after the main event) Your opinion?
4. Can you see a day when a say 8 great fight card (combination mma and boxing) ppv card has a championship MMA fight and a championship boxing fight. Say a Jon Jones fighting for the heavyweight MMA title in one fight and Tyson Fury fighting for the heavyweight boxing title.
5. If you haven’t answered who wins between fury and paul who it your pick?
6. Have the promoters talked to the trainers and the fighters(Benavidez and Plant) about being cooler in the upcoming events leading up to the fight so nothing gets too out of hand which can cause a disruption to the fight?
7. How do you classify James Scott as a boxer??
8. Since sometimes you share your daughters track skills with us readers what are her goals for this spring and summer and are there any track athletes or any athlete she really likes and are their athletes that you maybe think are good role models for her?
Sincerely, Rich Mathews
Bread’s Response:
1. It’s hard to say if the left hook to the body hurt Dirrell. I’m not in Dirrell’s body and the ko shot came immediately after so the evidence is inconclusive. But I do think it distracted him. And it made his counter hook a second late and it didn’t allow him to get leverage on it.
2. I have always viewed the No Mas fight as a stoppage for Leonard. Technically it is. Duran’s frustration was accentuated because he was taking some sharp blows. Duran’s frustration was accentuated because Leonard was having a great night and he knew he had 8 more rounds to go. I love Duran also but he got stopped. He didn’t get knocked out cold. But he got stopped nonetheless.
3. I don’t like when fights happen AFTER the main event. Energy is a real thing and it’s not fair to fighters when they see everyone walking out and talking and not paying them any attention. The Main events should just start earlier. It’s simple. No late than 10pm EST!
4. Yes I can see combined cards but the ring set up would be the issue. A ring and an octagon are two different things. If somehow that gets figured out I can see it happening. But that’s not an easy fix.
5. I am picking Jake Paul to beat Tommy Fury. I just feel like Paul has some solid instincts as a fighter. I also know he’s not going to hand pick an opponent who is not limited. Everyone can make a wrong pick, but my guts tell me this isn’t the wrong one. I don’t know if he kos Fury, but I think he’s going to beat him. I think Paul picked Fury because of his relationship to the heavyweight champion of the world. But he also picked him because he’s not as talented as a fighter. Fury has to prove him wrong..
6. Not to my knowledge. But it wouldn’t be a bad idea.
7. James Scott was a real top 10 contender in the light heavyweight division’s toughest ever era.
8. My daughter’s name is Ava Ray Edwards. She’s 12 years old. Her goal is to do her best and set PR’s every year. PR’s are personal records. She wants to win the Gold Medal in the 100M, 200M and 400M at the AAU Junior Olympics. She’s won 2 years in a row in the 400M. But the Gold in the 100 and 200 have thus far have eluded her. I have a blast watching both of my kids run track and play sports. She likes Abby Steiner and Allison Felix.
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