The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling topics such as Gervonta Davis’ big win over Ryan Garcia. Teofimo Lopez’s controversial comments and his fight with Josh Taylor, heavyweight Zhilei Zhang, and more. (photo by Ryan Hafey)
Dear Mr Edwards,
We have just had a great boxing weekend with Cordina vs Rakhimov being a highlight and Davis vs Garcia bringing the sport in the limelight. Compubox stats: some refer to stats (not this weekend but in general) to prove their take on fights forgetting that a fight is scored on round to round basis not number of punches. This is rather blatantly wrong but there is another, more refined downside of reliance on the stats. It is evident that these are people (with all their biases and abilities as well as with inabilities) during fights that score those punches. There are instructive videos online that show how wrong these numbers can be; couniting for instance missed punches or punches landed on the guard but not counting sometimes punches that reached the target. The question: sometimes you might be lightning quick and use nifty movement to avoid being hit or to hit your opponent in uncanny way but you also need to make it evident for the judges (let’s forget less important Compubox operators). Do you train for this? I have seen rounds which when you watch slow speed you (in this case myself) would score differently. So it seems valid and important. Would you mind sharing with us what your thoughts on Compubox are as well?
Best greetings from UK, Marek
Bread’s Response: Compubox is controlled by humans so it’s always room for error. I don’t want to criticize Compu box because boxing does need a visual and accountable reference as to what’s happening because so much of boxing is subjective. Compubox is also innovative and it’s good for the fans. And for the most, the winner of the fight will be the fighter who landed the most punches in more rounds..
However, I personally try not refer to Compu box as far as trying to prove my point as to who won a fight. Especially not with the overall punch stats. Because a fighter can have a big round or two and it will make the overall stats look lopsided and it wouldn’t be conclusive as to who won the majority of the rounds. I think this is where people go wrong when they refer to overall punch stats. They say it without context. The fighter who out lands his opponent in the majority of the rounds will usually win the fight. So on the occasions that I refer to CompuBox it will be in context with who outlanded who in the majority of the individual rounds.
But again, human beings are counting and when humans count there is room for error.
I personally train my fighters to be accurate and to understand that their performance will win them rounds. I try to keep it simple with fighters. They don’t need to overthink. I state to them the winner of the round is usually the fighter who is in CONTROL. The fighter who is doing what he wants more so than the opponent. A winner of the round, is usually who you would rather be in that round. I tell them presentation and what the judges think is happening is just as important as to what is actually happening. But I don’t talk about Compu Box too much because fighters don’t have privilege to that information until AFTER the fight. And after the fight your judgment will become clouded because you already know the outcome. On top of that no fighter can count his punches while he’s fighting…
What up Breadman?
Sir I am tired of the 135 pound slight of the hand trickery to make G. Davis the best at 135 without facing the top two guys and his nemesis’. Haney and Shakur should just go about their ways and lay out the other superstars to force this cat to fight one of them. I don’t want Haney and Shakur to fight each other yet until Tank faces one of them with his easy path and slight of the hand domination. Haney is busy with Loma and should call out Romero if he can win a strap at 140 before Tank moves up to try it. A lot of tough killers wanting Davis’ scalp. The jig is up. Now we will see if Mr. New face of boxing steps up to be a hall of famer.
Much respect, Micheal “Expedite” Blount
Bread’s Response: I can see you aren’t a Tank Davis fan. I assume it’s because of his matchmaking and A side status. I’m not going to argue with you and try to convince you to like him. That’s your choice. But let me say this. Tank is the real deal! I’ve been saying it and I will keep saying it. He has a special quality about him that will be hard to overcome. I’m not saying he’s unbeatable. I’m not saying he’s invincible. But I’m saying he’s rough to beat. I’m saying that no one has an easy time with him. I’m saying his conditioning, IQ, power and composure will keep him in any fight and win most. That’s it. That’s all.
I must say, I don’t understand the shock in Joyce losing, he is 37. I seen one old man lose to another old man. For some time I was confused as to why ppl thought he was the future when age was always a factor. I believe big George and Floyd had people thinking they will be great at an advanced age. Where does Joyce go from here? Where does the other old man go from here? I can’t believe either of these men will be around at the top for an advanced timeframe. Can they pose a threat to the big 3 and how would the fair against Big Baby Anderson?
Thanks, Great work with Caleb
Bread’s Response: I don’t get shocked that anyone loses. But I didn’t expect Joyce to lose to Zhang. Joyce’s age is his age but remember Zhang is 2 years older at 39. I think Joyce has to retool and fight another top name or rematch Zhang. I think things will be harder though because they now see he’s human. Let’s see how it plays out.
Good morning Bread,
Hope all is well with you & yours. How, if at all, is training a guy from a small town or rural background different to training a big city cat? To give context, I don’t think there have been any good British boxers from a small town or rural background. The great majority come from 4 cities, London, Manchester, Glasgow or Liverpool. Those that don’t still come from fairly big conurbations e.g McGuigan from Belfast, Prince Naseem from Sheffield, Froch from Nottingham. However, things seem to be a bit different in the States. I understand your guy Caleb is from a rural background &, going back a few years, Liston, Frazier & Evander were all from the country. Does it make a difference if a guy comes from a remote village instead of the big bad city?
Also, a mythical match-up for you. If, as was apparently being planned, Dempsey fights Johnson in 1919 who wins? I’ve got Johnson. It sounds mad to pick a 41 year old to beat a 24 year old but Johnson was, legit, ATG & I don’t believe Dempsey ever was. I think the first 3 or 4 rounds are hell for Johnson & he probably gets knocked down at least once but, with his back to the wall, he’d get through it. Dempsey’s record suggests he couldn’t sustain that output for v long & as the fight slows we are going to see that Johnson’s skills are next level to Dempsey’s. By the last rounds both men are exhausted, Dempsey from swinging & missing so much, Johnson just because he is 41, but at the end Johnson deserves the verdict. (Whether he would’ve got the verdict is, obviously, a whole different matter).
Bread’s Response: Where a fighter comes from doesn’t determine his success. But it will determine many of his attributes and style traits. Fighters from Detroit will have certain habits. Fighters from Philly will have others simply because you pick up certain things in the gym. Fighters who are from the country may not have the inside fighting or slick stuff but they will be well conditioned and strong and….physical. Where you learn to fight matters. But the cream will figure out a way to rise to the top. I don’t like to GENERALIZE but there are traits you can pick up on depending on where a fighter is from.
In 1919 Johnson was too old. I’m a big Johnson fan. He’s a greater fighter than Dempsey. He’s just better overall. But Johnson lost his title in 1915. He was past his best day. So 4 years later you think he could’ve beaten a prime Dempsey. I don’t know about that. 40 years old was ancient in those days without modern recovery.
Breadman- huge fan and the fact that Caleb didn’t get stopped is credit to his heart AND yours as the trainer. In the lead up, I saw Tank/Garcia more like 55/45 or 60/40, and that’s why I was annoyed he didn’t take a tuneup to stay sharper and maybe push more toward even. I was wrong. Tank is a level above him in ring IQ and killer instinct (think Crawford). I think Shakur Stevenson has the sublime skill and similar attributes to be competitive with Tank down the road. Haney is just as technical (maybe more?) but I don’t know if he has the same clutch gene/killer instinct to take Tank to deep waters. In history, have there been superbly technical fighters that have overcome ring IQ/clutch fighters like Tank & Crawford?
Thanks, Ken in Jersey
Bread’s Response: All styles have been overcome at some point or the other. Ray Robinson was clutch with great IQ and he lost. Tank and Crawford can lose. The question is will they ever lose.
I also thought Ryan said a lot by not taking the tune up fight. That told me he doesn’t love boxing. That told me he marches to his own tune because I know his team wanted him to take the fight. When you go against the better judgment of your team, you need to come through.
While I was watching Gervonta Davis fight Ryan Garcia, a point George Foreman used to make regularly on HBO came to my mind. Foreman’s phrasing was always something along the lines of “don’t follow a massive puncher around the ring. ”The idea is if you stalk a puncher, you’re going to walk into big shots and get hurt. That’s exactly what Garcia did the entire night. I was surprised he didn’t use his reach to box carefully from a distance. I think that’s clearly the way to beat Davis. Do you also feel Garcia’s aggressive strategy was wrong, or am I just overlooking how great Davis’ performance was?
Thank you!
Bread’s Response: Sometimes a gameplan is complex. Sometimes a gameplan that no one thought would work, works. Sometimes the practical gameplan works. It depends on the night. I think there is always more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe Ryan had to find something out about himself that night. Boxing is humbling. Ryan views himself as a puncher. He seems infatuated with how fast and hard he punches. Watch him hit the pads. Listen to how he talks about himself. He knows he can punch. So what he did was he tried to put it on Tank. But being a puncher comes with a price. You have to have the durability or defense or determination to deal with whatever is coming back at you. Ryan didn’t have it on fight night. It doesn’t mean he can’t get it. But he didn’t have vs Tank. I also want to give context. Just because we saw Ryan trying to be aggressive doesn’t mean that was the Gameplan. Maybe he did it on his own. Fighters are under a lot of stress and Ryan said he got bored after the 1st round. So I’m not so sure him being aggressive was part of the prefight gameplan. However, Tank Davis gave a great performance. And Ryan didn’t fight the fight that gave him the best chance to win. Both can be true.
Lately I’ve seen many of the top guys who were sworn enemies put the past behind them and show each other respect. I just saw a picture on IG where Caleb Plant and David Benavidez took a picture together. I think that’s admirable but you have always been on that time. I’ve never seen you beef, talk stuff or be an antagonist. Is that something you talked to Caleb about? Where did you get that level demeanor from because it’s not passive it’s just not overly aggressive.
Bread’s Response: This is a passion for me but most of all it’s a business. And it’s a legitimate business. I’m from a rough city. Where most of the people I know are involved in illegal business where they have to look over their shoulders. I have friends that were killed. I have friends who have been kidnapped. That’s BEEF!
So I guess I have seen beef and this so called boxing beef is not real in my opinion. And when you’re really into that type of life and you find a legal legitimate business to earn a living off of, you want to distance yourself from the street beef lifestyle. Those who know, really know. Arguing with someone at a boxing event knowing security will break it up is not BEEF. It’s an ego driven argument.
So I compartmentalize it and I act in a way where people don’t try to try me but I don’t act like a bully or a tough guy. I’m also comfortable with myself. I don’t act like that because I know what I’ve been through in life and most of all I know what I’m willing to do if I have to. So I don’t feel the need to show that side unless I’m forced. Acting like that all time takes away the effect. And an argument at a press conference just doesn’t take me there and I can’t ACT like it does when it really doesn’t.
Caleb has been around me, so he knows my demeanor. But I didn’t tell him to be friends with David or anyone else. He’s mature. He’s an honorable man and he did it all on his own. I also think you will now see a more agreeable David Benavidez because he was angry that he wasn’t getting the big shot. Now that he’s got it on the big stage I think you will see more fellowship with David among his potential rivals. But I don’t want any credit for fighters not beefing anymore. I only control myself and what they did was on their own. Props to them for it.
Your call on Tank vs Ryan was scary accurate. You talked about Tank’s composure. You talked about how Rayn makes more mistakes. You talked about Ryan not taking that tune up. Then you on twitter not only did you say after the 5th round Ryan needs to land something big or Tank will start to roll. But you bet the exact round on the ko! Big time prediction. What made you draw those conclusions?
Bread’s Response: Well honestly I bet a few rounds on the ko. I bet from individually from 5 through 10. I felt it would be a mid round stoppage and the odds were so big for those rounds I laid something on all of them. The odds were from +1100 to +2000 so those middle rounds were worth it. In a battle of punchers the better boxer and the one who makes less mistakes usually wins. Tank outboxed Ryan and he made less mistakes…..
When I watch Ryan, I see a great talent. I didn’t see a great fighter. There is a huge difference. I see a fighter who needs to mature in and out of the ring. And I saw a fighter who’s matchmaking didn’t prepare him for the moment. When I say that, I don’t blame the matchmakers. Because Ryan can fight whoever he wants. But someone who’s influential on Ryan’s team decided to match him the way they did.
When I see that it tells me they want to make the money and getting better is not a priority. It’s not necessarily wrong because if Garcia would have lost early on then their point gets proven. But I think it showed a lack of confidence in him to not make fights that would have built him. Some good fights coming up would have been Jo Jo Diaz and even Tevin Farmer. Two southpaws that will try to win. Both short. Both with good skill. It’s easy to play Monday morning QB but I just felt what I felt and the way I felt showed separation in the fight.
What I saw in the ring was one fighter who was having fun in Tank. And another who was stressed out in Ryan. When something stresses you out you want to get it over with. So Ryan after having a good 1st round, went out and got super aggressive in the 2nd round despite his trainer’s instructions.
Joe Goosen gave him great instructions between the 1st and 2nd round. He just didn’t listen. He got hurt, dropped and then he was mentally behind from then on. Tank fought a mature fight. Ryan did not. I don’t want to come down hard on Ryan though because I like the kid. He seems like a good person with the weight of the world on his back which makes losing even harder. Ryan seems very spiritual. There is a word in the bible. Discernment. Ryan will need it moving forward. Who he decides to work with and allow to mentor him will be paramount in his development. He can overcome this but it won’t be easy. Ryan will need to allow himself to be trained and mentored.
What’s good Bread, How did you get the nickname Breadman? Also I’m starting to think that Tank’s IQ is just as good as Shakur’s. That dip and lean into the chest move then hook to the body as Ryan moved out was crazy! Where as Shakur’s defensive IQ is great Tank’s offensive IQ is off the chart. To me Tank and Crawford have the most offensive creativity of any fighter today. The angles, whipping jabs and uppercut, them dudes know how to get shots in. I think Crawford has this shovel like jab to the body that’s cold too, but he blinds you with the other hand first. Lastly I don’t really like fantasy fights because guys always pick fights that never had a chance of happening, but one that we never saw was Holmes vs Foreman. How do you see that fight going circa 73-77 or 91-95? Do you think a younger Holmes does better vs Tyson when they met back in the 80s? Anyway peace to you and your family brother.
Bread’s Response: I got the name from playing basketball. The first scrimmage of the season my sophomore year, I went crazy. There was a movie called “Cornbread, Earl and Me” about basketball. So my teammates started calling me Cornbread. It stuck so much that lots of people don’t know my real name that I went to school with. As I got older, the Corn dropped off and everyone started calling me Breadman.
Tank’s IQ is off the charts. He’s very, very creative. He processes very fast. I think we are watching a superb fighter enter his prime. Crawford and Tank have some of the most creative kos of this era. I love watching both of them put people to sleep.
Foreman vs Holmes is a fight that would probably determine the 3rd or 4th best heavyweight ever. In the 70’s Foreman lost in 1974 and Holmes was just emerging as a contender. They’re the same age but Foreman was an Olympian so he was developed faster. Before the Ali fight I say Foreman wins. Post Ali, Foreman fought different and was mentally defeated. I have no idea what happens. If it would’ve happened in the 90s, I don’t know. Maybe a draw. Both had slipped enough for it to be a great fight. Holmes would lay on the ropes and set traps. Foreman would bludgeon. It’s so hard to say. I’m more partial to Foreman as a fighter but I think Holmes is a stylistic nightmare for Foreman. Jimmy Young and Ali fight similar to Holmes…..
Holmes had a greater career than Tyson. But I think Tyson is nightmare for him stylistically. Holmes doesn’t defend a right hand well. Tyson has a brutal overhand right. Tyson could also jab with Holmes to offset his great jab. Cus D’mato allegedly told Tyson, that he would ko Holmes long before he ever did it. Remember Holmes was hurt horribly by Mike Weaver. He was dropped brutally by Renaldo Snipes and Earnie Shavers. That overhand right that Tyson couldn’t miss him with would still be there if they fought in their primes.
So much to say after this weekend. First I want to give you your props as a trainer. I was never a big fan of Caleb Plant. But Plant was up against it against a better fighter in David Benavidez similar to how Ryan Garcia was up against it against Tank Davis. But I saw your fighter in Plant go 12 competitive rounds and take a bad beating and still try to win. Then I saw Garcia take much less punishment and decide to not get up. I was critical of Plant until I saw how out of depth Garcia was. So props to both of you for competing and preparing. My question is what could you do with Ryan Garcia? I would also like to know if there are any fighters you think you could get a world championship if you trained them.
Bread’s Response: I don’t want to say what I could with Ryan Garcia for a few reasons. I don’t know him personally and knowing what type of person a fighter is goes a long way in being able to train them. I’ve never met Ryan. I also don’t want to say much because I respect Joe Goosen. And I feel like trainers get blamed for fighter’s poor performances when it’s not always the trainer’s fault. We don’t know if it was Joe Goosen’s gameplan to BLITZ Tank Davis in the 2nd round. Personally I don’t believe it was but I would like to hear Ryan and Joe speak for themselves.
Nevertheless, Ryan went to Joe for a reason. Joe is a HOF for a reason. So I’m not going to talk about what I could or couldn’t do with Ryan Garcia. I respect the game and I respect Joe too much for that.
There are plenty of fighters that I see that are my type of fighters. I like all types of fighters. Boxers, pressure guys, technical guys and I would love to have a lights out puncher. But the truth is I would never say who I could do something with publicly because it would be seemingly trying to solicit a job and I wouldn’t ever do that. I’m not ever going to ask a fighter to train them. More importantly I’m happy with the guys I have.
I saw that you picked Teofimo Lopez to beat Josh Taylor. It was a sexy pick but I bet you’re regretting it now that Teofimo made the comments he did about black fighters. Taylor is going to blow Teofimo out he’s mentally weak and he’s self sabotaging his career. This is the second time he’s badmouthed Top Rank and he’s going to feel the pain this time.
Bread’s Response: You’re right I did pick Teofimo to beat Josh Taylor. I’ve been a big Taylor fan but my guts told me that Teofimo would win a decision in New York and raise his game up to the moment and be just a little too quick for Taylor. I also want to say I don’t pick fighters because I like them. I don’t know Teofimo or Josh. I just respect them both as fighters but there are no relationships there with me. So as of now I’m not going to change my pick.
But I will say I heard what Teofimo said. And it was disappointing. Even if he felt that way, he shouldn’t have said that before his big fight in NY with Top Rank. Now the crowd will most likely be against him. What if he gets a black judge? What if the referee is black? Imagine the tension now between him and the black fighters who are with Top Rank. Imagine the tension between him and Tim Bradley and Andre Ward. It’s just very unfortunate. It just wasn’t a good thing to say before a big fight. And if the decision is close and it goes against him then these comments will get referenced as part of a conspiracy against him…..
I’ve learned the hard way that controlling your emotions and not allowing things to trigger you in a way where your actions will be regrettable, is the key to success. I have empathy because I see up close the pressure that everyone is under on the front line in boxing. The boxers and trainers specifically. Teofimo is a young man and his ups and downs have been on display for public consumption. He’s not immune to the pressure. Hopefully he explains himself and is accountable for what he said. Hopefully he has someone older and wiser than him that can help him when he makes his decisions and not make them with his emotions. Let’s see how it plays out.
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